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RE: [syndication] ICE 1.1 released, and ICE/RSS discussions
Count me in on the discussion, although I won't be in NY.
On Tue, 20 Jun 2000, David Galbraith wrote:
> I would certainly be happy to join any discussion of ICE/RSS.
> I will be at XML-Devcon in New York next week, will anyone be there?
> DG
>
> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
> David Galbraith - Chief Architect, founder
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>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Laird Popkin [mailto:laird.popkin@sothebys.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2000 1:16 AM
> > To: syndication@egroups.com
> > Subject: [syndication] ICE 1.1 released, and ICE/RSS discussions
> >
> >
> > First, I'd like to let folks know that the ICE 1.1 spec is out at
> > http://www.icestandard.org.
> >
> > Here's the press release: http://www.icestandard.org/releases.asp.
> > The
> > first few paragraphs are:
> >
> > ------
> >
> > FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CONTACT PETE JANHUNEN
> > 13 JUNE 2000 703/519-8190, pjanhunen@gca.org
> >
> > ICE Version 1.1 Hits the Street
> >
> > Breakthrough enhancements to standard for digital asset exchange
> > released at XML Europe 2000
> >
> > PARIS (XML Europe, 13 June 2000) -- The Information and Content
> > Exchange (ICE) Authoring Group has released ICE Version 1.1, adding
> > tremendous capabilities to this already powerful digital asset
> > exchange
> > standard. Version 1.1 is now available on the ICE web site,
> > www.icestandard.org.
> >
> > The ICE standard, an initiative hosted by IDEAlliance, reduces the
> > cost
> > of doing business online and increases the value of B2B
> > relationships.
> > ICE facilitates the controlled exchange and management of electronic
> > assets between networked partners and affiliates. Applications based
> > on
> > ICE allow companies to easily construct syndicated publishing
> > networks,
> > Web superstores, and online reseller channels by establishing Web
> > site-
> > to-Web site information networks.
> >
> > "Thousands of companies are using ICE-based products from vendors
> > such
> > as Arcadia, Intershop, Kinecta, Macromedia, Quark, Vignette and
> > Xenosys," commented ICE Working Group chair Laird Popkin of
> > Sotheby's.
> > "The work we've done to improve the standard will make it easier to
> > automate even more tasks and will help knit the digital economy more
> > tightly together."
> >
> > ------
> >
> > Here's the spec: http://www.icestandard.org/spec/SPEC-ICE1.01-
> > 20000511.html.
> >
> > Now, to reply to Dave Winer's message:
> >
> > --- In syndication@egroups.com, "Dave Winer" <dave@u...> wrote:
> > > Boy there would be some intense politics at that particular
> > meeting. ;->
> >
> > I'm not clear why you think so. The ICE Authoring Group has been
> > notably free of politics, which is (IMO) pretty darned cool for a
> > group
> > containing some pretty direct competitors (at various times): News
> > Corp
> > and Tribune, Microsoft and Sun, Vignette and Shiftkey, Reuters and
> > WAVO, ... you get the idea. And (speaking informally) the AG members
> > agree with the sentiment on this list (and your previous emails) that
> > it's worth exploring a common standard in this space.
> >
> > > I'm still pondering how to move RSS forward. I definitely want
> > ICE-like
> > > stuff in RSS2, publish and subscribe is at the top of my list, but
> > I am
> > > going to fight tooth and nail for simplicity. I love optional
> > elements. I
> > > don't want to go down the namespaces and schema road, or try to
> > make it a
> > > dialect of RDF. I understand other people want to do this, and
> > therefore I
> > > guess we're going to get a fork. I have my own opinion about where
> > the other
> > > fork will lead, but I'll keep those to myself for the moment at
> > least.
> >
> > Again, I'm not sure what you're referring to here. ICE doesn't use
> > XML
> > Namespaces or XML Schema, and isn't a dialect of RDF. Or are you
> > referring to competing design philosophies within the people involved
> > in RSS? The ICE AG decided two years ago not to take the RDF path,
> > for
> > example, so it sounds like we've got similar design philosophies.
> >
> > Given that ICE has been in production for quite a while, and does
> > many
> > of the things that people have mentioned wanting to see in RSS, it's
> > certainly worth getting together to discuss whether we can work
> > together. I don't know what the answer is, but I think that it's
> > productive for the industry to at least have the conversation.
> >
> > > I see the biggest value in the large base of RSS 0.91 content, my
> > goal is to
> > > add simple features to enable new applications, giving each a lot of
> > > thought, and foremost to retain the simplicity of 0.91. I guess I
> > can't say
> > > that enough. ;->
> > >
> > > Dave
> >
> > There's certainly a lot of value in the installed bases of both
> > standards. There are thousands of companies running ICE, and anything
> > that would affect them is not to be taken lightly, but at the same
> > time
> > the potential migration costs for all involved would be that much
> > higher a year from now. I'd hope, however, that potential migration
> > costs don't overshadow the potential value of avoiding significant
> > duplicated efforts in the long run. And, if we're clever, we may be
> > able to minimize such impact.
> >
> > In moving to take the next step (setting up the conversation about
> > the
> > relationship between ICE and RSS), I'm not sure who the ICE AG should
> > have the conversation with. The only formally defined author is Dave
> > Winer (there's no standards body for RSS, and it's copyrighted solely
> > by Userland) I guess I'd have to ask this list who appropriate
> > representatives of the RSS user/implementor community would be.
> >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Laird A Popkin" <laird@i...>
> > > To: "Dave Winer" <dave@u...>
> > > Cc: <xml-dev@x...>; "Xml-Rpc@E..." <xml-rpc@egroups.com>;
> > > <xml-dist-app@w...>; <fork@x...>
> > > Sent: Friday, June 09, 2000 8:59 AM
> > > Subject: Re: RSS 0.91 restated
> > >
> > >
> > > > Once 0.91 is "pushed out the door" I'd suggest that we have a good
> > > > opportunity to explore merging RSS and ICE. I'd suggest setting
> > up a
> > > > meeting between some of the ICE AG members and some of the folks
> > involved
> > > > in RSS to see how things could play together to our mutual
> > benefit.
> >
> >
> >
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Rael
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